Valuable & Reliable Science Reporting

Thinking 'bout posting but not posting is, er, well, not posting.

{sigh}

Here's a quick link to a Washington Post article on a two-day conference on evolution for High School students at the Howard Hughes Center in Chevy Chase. Post reporter Valerie Strauss does an excellent job separating opinion from fact, while showing respect for both.

As a skeptic in matters religious, one thing stood out to me as problematic when it comes to human integrity.

(Advanced Placement biology teacher, Kurt) Richter said that he makes a strong effort to present evidence and not opinions -- and that the approach works in educating students, more than half of whom enter his science classes disbelieving evolution. Most change their minds.

Not (17 year old senior, Emily) Howell, however, who said she took Advanced Placement Biology with Richter last year and kept telling him that she had a "different worldview" from her teacher, one based on a literal reading of the Bible. Nothing would shake it.

Richter said that she was an excellent student and deserved a chance to attend the evolution conference.

Nothing, not even a cold, hard smack of empirical reality will shake her faith.

As long as Miss Howell doesn't take her right to self-delusion and try forcing it upon others, I really have no personal problem with it. I just don't share it and won't deny that I don't respect such potentially self-defeating silliness.

I mean it. Where is the honor or integrity in professing belief in something you have seen proven wrong?

Comments

  1. Where is the honor or integrity in professing belief in something you have seen proven wrong?

    They don't see it that way. I deal with it everyday on my blog and at God's for Suckers! They honestly make things up about evolution, abiogenesis and cosmology. When you point it out they go back to "science has been wrong before" or something similar. And they don't stop. They post 12 paragraph comments - hard to debunk 50 lbs of bullshit on a 24 lb day.

    There's an apologetic device for every cogent point anyone can bring up. I've had them run out before and then recycle the old ones!

    Fundies put they're fingers in their ears and won't pull them out no matter how hard evidence pulls...

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  2. They post 12 paragraph comments - hard to debunk 50 lbs of bull**expletive** on a 24 lb day.

    RAmen cuz!

    But, man! LOL! I mean, people know when we are lying. Even if you tell yourself "God wants this" and that means "ask no more", it STILL doesn't change the lie to a truth, and we know it. I think it must simply be that so many others people lie 'bout the god thing that they all feed off of each others' denial. I really haven't found another explanation I can stomache (not that my personal emotional reactions mean squat vis-a-vie reality! LOL!)

    I've just got to let it go when it's not being done Legislatively. It's freakin' hard though. Especially when there are some people with whom I simply can't associate even though I enjoy nearly everything else about our association.

    Arrrhhhggg!

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  3. I find it interesting that you feel the need to point out when people are wrong. Do you do this on the street as well? If you see an old lady not going at a green light because she didn't notice it, do you make it a point to get out and let her know that the light is green, and that is an empirical fact, thus she should be going. And what if she says "Nah, I don't think I will." are you gonna make sure to tell her just how wrong she is for not going?

    It looks like you are on a quest to educate those who you believe need to be educated, like your creed or calling, same with Rockstar Ryan. I just want to remind you that it's not your job to "educate" the masses, much like there was no such thing as the "white mans burden", there is no such thing as the "science fanatic empirical evidence pusher burden."

    As far as the honor, all throughout history, people who have held onto their beliefs regardless of reality and facts have been held up to a certain level of esteem. That is the nature of it, people who would rather die for their beliefs than change their mind are seen with a certain level of honor, or at least stubborness.

    Even one of the most famous atheists to ever exist would say that Jesus was quite possibly an overman, leading his own life and living his own beliefs seperate from what society says. According to Nietzsche this was the ultimate person you could be, and that is what this girl is doing, she lives her own beliefs regardless of what you or other say is fact.

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  4. It looks like you are on a quest to educate those who you believe need to be educated, like your creed or calling,

    I am on a quest to be educated. Along the way I am sometimes fortunate to educate. That it usually happens at the same time is what makes it more probable.

    I look at if the odds have to be 50/50 for either thing to happen instead of the other. It just depends on what happens and how I respond. No plan. I am imagining working on one though...

    You do point out one empirical fact; belief has certainly helped many people hold on to their honor morally supportive of both themselves and our species. Personal religion doesn't have to be evil. I don't believe it does.

    Even one of the most famous atheists to ever exist would say that Jesus was quite possibly an overman, leading his own life and living his own beliefs seperate from what society says.

    It doesn't matter who said it as long as it is true. Seems likely to me, 'though I'm not sure what an overman may be. Uber menschen?

    Gotta run. L8r

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  5. I love your post! You are a reasonable and rational voice which is desperately needed. When I read your blog, I don't feel like the only non-believer, non-christian on the planet, even though I am probably the only one (except my son!) in my tiny little universe.

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  6. If you see an old lady not going at a green light because she didn't notice it, do you make it a point to get out and let her know that the light is green, and that is an empirical fact, thus she should be going.

    Ok Samaritan, you're not gonna honk at the old bag? Fine. The rest of us have shit to do. Fucking Strawman.

    belief has certainly helped many people hold on to their honor morally supportive of both themselves and our species.

    Carl Sagan once said something like "I'd rather live in the know and unhappy than be deluded and cheerful". It's like the Matrix: We took the red pill and escaped even though the world is bleaker now.

    As far as the honor, all throughout history, people who have held onto their beliefs regardless of reality and facts have been held up to a certain level of esteem.

    [Godwinn alert]
    Like Hitler?

    she lives her own beliefs regardless of what you or other say is fact.

    Fine, but Bains puts it perfectly:

    As long as Miss Howell doesn't take her right to self-delusion and try forcing it upon others, I really have no personal problem with it.

    Unfortunately, the deluded among you try and force it upon us Red Pills. That's why we're pissed.

    < / rant >

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  7. No doubt double R. Those freakin' Red Pills are, all too often, damn hard to swallow as well.

    But the alternative is BS, and anger at people who don't buy one's version of the Matrix; whatever It has designed as everyone's "world". You don't test the Matrix or its illusion will collapse.

    Testing reality doesn't do that, except where theory runs into data loss. Guess what. There's always more data to be collected. We've just got to decide to survive long enough as a species to collect it.

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