Was I Too Harsh?

Well, maybe a little...

I'm a member of Atheist-World Yahoo Group (nearly defunct and moving to Atheists-World: long story...) and we recently received a new member who wanted to help us.

She offered a link to her own site, requesting that we try it for 30 days, taking the polls and doing, well, I'm not sure what... LOL! Not until she clarified one of your group member's questions that is. The first block quote is Danielle's response to my fellow group member. Be sure to click on the link and read what Carol posted. I've seen it before but it still gives goosebumps for its origins. It's Excellent reading!

The second blockquote is my own reply to Danielle. And so, Danielle...
I do not have the time to answer all of your questions at one time, I know people are busy that is why I chose a "bite size" newsletter, as to not throw everything at you at once therefore all questions will not be answered in a day. As for the ads on yahoo, I have no control over them, it is part of their free site, I do not have the resources to upgrade right now, as I am just returned to work from a six month medical leave I had no control over. Student loans, 5 more car payments, groceries for a family, water bills, rent, electric, I think take higher priority over paying for a website right now. The ads are from yahoo, why on earth would I choose the ads they put on there as my own if I were in control?
If you want answers faster, I highly recommend the following resources.
Second, I highly recommend you read the following books:
This one by a humanist as yourself and doesn't believe in a "god"
1.) Darwin’s Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution by Michael J. Behe
2.) in Six Days: Why 50 scientists choose to believe in creation edited byJohn F. Ashton, PhD
3.) on the Seventh Day: Forty scientists and academics explain why they believe in God also edited by John F. Ashton, PhD.
There are also books you can read online at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/cec/online_resources.asp including The Answers Book which will answer many of your questions.
You can also find answers online that I will use in my newsletter at:
You have only seen my work for a few days, and that is not enough to judge me, I have seen you twist my kind words into hatred, which tells me you have a hardened heart which I am sad for whomever made you that way, yet I too, don't know you well enough to make that judgement. I have obviously hit a sore spot knowing how many times you have written. I don't have the time (since I have a family, etc.), nor will I debate you everyday, I am not going to try to change your mind, I am just sharing knowledge, some copy and pasting which I will leave my resource behind, I realized after day 2, I had forgotten to add it and that I apologize. Some will be my own stories. I hope to finish changing over the surveys to the atheist site soon, right now you have click on my main site and scroll down to answer it. I will be adding a new one soon.
The challenge is basically, after 30 days, will you still think the same way? If so fine, if not, even better. I have learned, you have learned. We move on. You are not forced to read my stuff, nor am I yours, we read them because we want to. After the 30 days, I will leave all the newsletter material on my website along with all my emails, and survey answers. Science is what is observable, repeatable and testable. People have the right to observe, repeat and test ideas and theories to come to their own conclusions and not rely merely on others for their answers. That is what my newsletter is about, to open minds, let people judge for themselves. You obviously are, I am, and others will too. That is what makes it great.
I will leave you with on final thought since we all think we are basically good people. Have you taken the survey at www.needgod.com yet? It is not my own, but the survey is called "Do you consider yourself to be a good person?, It is quite interesting.
I have tried to write to you in kindness, but obviously you like to twist my words around before you have the full story, give me the benefit of the doubt before you let your hatred come out please. I will continue to be kind, but ask before prejudging me please.
As always, in Kindness,
Danielle,
(I cannot always right back in such long emails but will still try to answer your questions, right now, I have to call my doctor, my work, and spend time with my kids. Yes, I am a normal person just like you.)
Here is my, slightly, aggressive reply.
Dearest Danielle

You may want to actually apply critical thinking skills when reading: 1.) Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution by Michael J. Behe
This may help you understand why it is bunk and completely lacking in the discipline and honesty which the scientific methods demands.

I've never heard of either of these until now.
2.) in Six Days: Why 50 scientists choose to believe in creation edited byJohn F. Ashton, PhD
3.) on the Seventh Day: Forty scientists and academics explain why they believe in God also edited by John F. Ashton, PhD.

Here's what I know of its author though.
Google says very little about the man outside those particular works. Perhaps I'm missing something but I'll wait until I hear of any contributions of value this man may eventually offer. I won't hold my breath.

There are also books you can read online at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/cec/online_resources.asp including The Answers Book which will answer many of your questions.

Ahhhh... www.answersingenesis.... Okidoke... {rollingeyes} "Seek truth for authority, not authority for truth." Here is free advice: remember that saying when reading anything!

You have only seen my work for a few days, and that is not enough to judge me, I have seen you twist my kind words into hatred,

Hhhmmm... You invite us to exchange our innate and natural ability to reason by subsuming it someone else's belief system. We expose you as the fraud you are. And we are somehow twisting "kind words into hatred..." OooohhhK then...

... you have a hardened heart which I am sad for whomever made you that way,

Bad read girl.

yet I too, don't know you well enough to make that judgement.

Oops! You got something right! Better be carefull or you might learn how to do it more frequently! LOL!

I don't have the time (since I have a family, etc.), nor will I debate you everyday, I am not going to try to change your mind, I am just sharing knowledge, some (quote mining)

'nuff said

I hope to finish changing over the surveys to the atheist site soon, right now you have click on my main site and scroll down to answer it. I will be adding a new one soon.

Excellent! Good luck fleecin' the sheep!

The challenge is basically, after 30 days, will you still think the same way?

How about after 30 years of suffering such IDiocy from our friend's, family members, society at large, you go away and believe in your Sky-Daddy numbskullery on your own, with your friends, family members, and a slowly evolving though ever so slightly less frothingly delirious society at large?

If so fine, if not, even better. I have learned,

I doubt it...

you have learned.

Yes. How to deal sarcastically with a nutter such as yourself who has NO Respect for your own species' intellectual capacity.

That is what my newsletter is about, to open minds, let people judge for themselves.

As long as they forgo science, according to Henry Zuill, one of PhD Ashton's shill buddies.

I will leave you with on final thought since we all think we are basically good people.

I think you and your kind are very BAD people and I think so because you demonstrate it with cruelty and ignorance which is unforgivable. You "preach" tolerance and love and make promises for a mythological non-sequitor (that's yer God honey) which, even were they conceivably possible, would be abominations against natural morality and human decency. "Love HIM or burn in Hell for all eternity!" Well, isn't that so kind and loving and special...
Yes, I am a normal person just like you.)

You, my sweet IDiot, are very little like me where it counts, and I fully support your right to be so. But to be clear, Rights are given To People, By People. Your "rights" on this group are to express what you will and to be treated accordingly.

You were conceived as were we all, by a pair of sexually active homo sapien mammals. You have the potential of a species evolved primarily because of its intellectual capacity, and yet, like billions of others, you refuse to embrace the reality of your existence. Now THAT is sad and unforgivable.
With all respect,
Danielle
You might be a good person if you weren't hell bent on converting rational people (or just plain suckers even!) to your discredited and immoral beliefs.

With respect for your right to make a fool of yourself or to observe and learn and, quite likely, contribute some of your observations and anecdotes on how to live a good life and deal with obstinate ignorami who accuse you of doing exactly what they are doing to you,

Michael Bains
Well, I've never denied that I'm a silly human as well... I was basically just pissed that people decide they have a right to evangelize in places where it is obvious such a thing will not be appreciated. I even got so ticked off one time over a comment about Brian Flemming's blog being "dangerously educated" that I did exactly what I'm complaining about now! I joined the Women of Faith message board in order to "share my thoughts" with them!

Silly Human indeed...


Comments

  1. Dear MB
    I am also MB and the recipient of a blog response from Paul over on spiritual diablog, meant for you! In 43 years on this planet, my initials have never created confusion, so it was a fun and new experience!
    I feel it is my Blogosphere duty to answer your inquiry.
    YES!
    Nice does matter!
    The opportunity to build a bridge, extend a civil hand shake, plant the seeds for the birth of neural pathways in the mind of your co-Blogger, were destroyed by the patronizing, name calling, insult throwing, manor in which you chose to wrap what could have been a gift to her, even if she were not able to see it as one-at least not quite yet.
    She will most likely be further angered, maybe hurt, and Neurologically discombobulated by
    your assault ;thus, diminishing any chance of comprehension, reflection , and expansion in her thinking.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Howdy MaryBeth.

    My brother would say almost exactly the same thing. I wouldn't even question myself if I didn't feel the same way to a large extent.

    Am I sorry I said it though? No. I wouldn't have posted if I wasn't as proud of my sarcasm as I am of my facts. I do prefer to engage people in a inclusive manner as a rule. As you say, if she stays in the group, she might certainly be enlightened by the incredible knowledge in many posts and the often great wisdom of some the group's contributors.

    Probably because I love exchanging insults with my friends (childish, but who wants to grow up all the way and all the time?) that I don't think the occasional barbed response is utterly irresponsible. In this case my target was, IMO (note the lack of an H... LOL!) and despite her protest, not nearly so interested in learning as she was in converting! The evangelical proseletyzing concept is as abhorrent to me as any "divinely" inhumane OT exhortation to murder and rape (or circumcize, convert and then kill) our enemies!

    This little bit is probably what threw me over the edge vis-a-vie my desire for conciliation and tolerance:

    You have only seen my work for a few days, and that is not enough to judge me, I have seen you twist my kind words into hatred,

    to which I replied:

    Hhhmmm... You invite us to exchange our innate and natural ability to reason by subsuming it someone else's belief system. We expose you as the fraud you are. And we are somehow twisting "kind words into hatred..." OooohhhK then...

    While I might correct my verb usage, I wouldn't take back those words if I could.

    But I thank you Marybeth because you came out and posted and reminded me of better ways in the public domain to express my frustration and hurt (yes it HURTS that there are so many people like "Danielle" willing to "share" their "message of hope and inclusion" whilst ignoring its fundamental flaws, insanity and degradation of reason.)

    Danielle says we are all good people. Well, we are all bad people too. I would say she is very bad at being good and I am, occasionally, very good at being bad. I didn't go off on a profanity laced tirade and call her every name in the book in order to "scare her off" as I would have done in the past. I didn't just ignore her intrusion and pretend that she was just what she claimed; a visitor with shared interests who thought she might find a open ear on our Atheists group. I took her points and responded; in honest, truthful anger and humor.

    Her letter reads like an email from an "old friend" whom you can't quite recall but who remembers you well. After allowing this "friend" in, it becomes apparent that they are simply phishing. In Danielle's case she is simply following the admonition of her god to become a "(ph)isher of men". Such people's hooks have no place in my jaw nor my skull and, while they may be enough inducement for me to lose some control over my own emotions when I see them trolling for me (LOL! That would be Paranoid if it weren't so damn true!!!) I know, because of you and Paul and my bro, that I don't always have to respond exhorbitantly.

    Just because I'm nowhere near ready to include myself as one of the Coalition of the Chillin', doesn't meant that I can't relate and take a lesson from their title.

    Thanks again and please know that I DO find your comments helpful and you are much appreciated even when I won't fully implement your advice as of yet. I'm a gonna Rant sometimes! But I blog to vent as well as to get other people's input. As with the Yahoo Group, if people don't like it, they can say so or simply move along.

    When I'm right I'm gonna show it. When I'm wrong I wanna know it.

    Thanks & L8R

    ReplyDelete
  3. MMmmmm.. That was a fun site to mess with. Try the polls I made! Thanks Mbains!

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hi,

    Had some fun with that "what do you think of the bible" survey.

    My favorite question:
    What do you think a person has to do to go to heaven?

    My answer:
    no idea. but you can get to nirvana by taking US 131 north from Grand Rapids, MI to exit 153, then US 10 west about 12 miles.

    ReplyDelete

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